Asian A.V. Club newsletter #20
Director Kevin Tancharoen lets us in on his interesting career, the personal shift from working on 'The Brothers Sun' and a tenacious mantra that we all could learn from!
Not a lot of people can claim the unconventional path to becoming a director like Kevin Tancharoen. At a young age, Tancharoen found himself as a backup dancer and eventual choreographer for some of the biggest pop stars of the early 00’s like Britney Spears and N’Sync. However, his artistic aspirations didn't stop there. Driven by a passion for storytelling and a frustration with the limited opportunities available to him, he took a bold step: creating the movies he wanted to see himself.
Kevin Tancharoen’s proactive and versatility in handling diverse genres have made him a sought-after director for over a decade. Yet working on the series Thai Cave Rescue and The Brothers Sun brought an unexpected shift for the confident director. These projects in particular sparked a spiritual and emotional transformation, that will likely influence his future work.
But before we delve into all that, I had to get my fandom out of the way…
Asian A.V. Club: Full disclosure, this is a bit of a nerd moment for us to talk to you. As a fan of the series Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. it was such a joy to see on a weekly basis, your name featured quite heavily in the credits both as a consistent director and also having a sibling (Maurissa Tancharoen) as an executive producer too. Call it a personal bias, but somehow it made the show feel like it was in good hands seeing Asians were so prominently involved. So this is a bit of a treat.
Kevin Tancharoen: (laughs) Thank you. That's why we were able to get Ming-Na (Wen) and Chloe Bennet as leads, or feature Louis Ozawa and Tsai Chin. My sister was really adamant about making sure that there was representation behind the camera, but also in front of the camera as well.
Asian A.V. Club: I gotta ask, I read somewhere that your initial interest in working in Hollywood was through creature designs and monsters. It’s fascinating because when you watch a movie at a young age, you don’t really think about the artisans behind the scenes. Â
Kevin Tancharoen: I think it really comes down to three specific movies in my childhood that I was really obsessed with, the 1990 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Terminator 2: Judgement Day and Child’s Play. Basically, I was a pop culture nerd growing up. And I remember seeing the ‘making of’ specials on the VHS tapes of Ninja Turtles and Terminator 2. They showed the animatronics and the rubber suits and just the whole process. And I was like, ‘Oh my God, that seems like so much fun.’
I was already into drawing. And so it felt like that was what I wanted to do next. So I was lucky enough to get accepted into a class at school. But at that time, CGI was just starting to come out and really overtake movies like Jurassic Park and Spawn. Unfortunately, there was a lot of advice to a young kid like me being, ‘Hey, it's great that you love this, but maybe explore some other opportunities.’ And this was coming from some of my heroes and it was a bit of a sad awakening to realize things were changing so much. But what I love about today's world is that it feels like it's going back to practical makeup and practical animatronics, because that hands on approach feels just so much realer than CGI perfection.
Asian A.V. Club: Does that hands on quality translate into the work that you’re doing?
Kevin Tancharoen: 100%. Like if I had control of the budget and it was completely up to me, I would do almost everything practically. Of course there are certain things that just have to be done with CG and I totally respect that. If you can combine the power of craftsmanship with a computer and a CG world, then I think you got kind of the best of both worlds. My dream is to get back to miniatures. Like, I still think miniatures hold up really well.
I remember when Where the Wild Things came out. I was like, ‘Oh, that's cool cause it’s still a practical suit with some added CG mouth stuff.’ It shows where it can go. I still cross my fingers that one of these days we’re gonna get a new live action Ninja Turtles, where the guys are in suits and they CG the face. I think that would be really epic.
Asian A.V. Club: While you were studying this kind of craft, you also excelled in the world of dancing. As a young person in that industry, what did you observe or learn being of a dancer back then?
Kevin Tancharoen: It was one of those things where I actually just did it as a hobby. I was a huge martial arts fan, but also a huge dance fan, because I grew up watching a lot of fun music videos. I stumbled into it, to be honest. I didn't set out to be a professional dancer OR choreographer, but it was something that when the opportunity came, I really just fully embraced it, and went for it.
And I was young. I went on the road for the first time when I was 15. So in many ways, I have kind of a similar story like that movie Almost Famous, where I was the youngest person on the road. I didn't go out to clubs, I was very close to my family, I still had like a quote unquote, ‘normal life’ at home. I wasn't all about the business. So I was going between both worlds, which I think is what kept me sane. But I learned how to deal with people, being something of a wallflower and just kind of being an observer. And I grew up with hearing loss, so I wear hearing aids. And a lot of my observations were just kind of being quiet and watching and trying to figure out what's happening. If I couldn't understand the words, it made me probably in tune with facial nuances and body language. And I think in turn that just all ended up benefiting my directing career later.
Asian A.V. Club: It’s also amazing how wide your interests were and how you pursued them.
Kevin Tancharoen: I always grew up loving and appreciating and respecting the people who made the movie, made the show, or the people who made the music or the choreography. I was one of those kids who could love Bob Fosse, Stan Winston, and music producers like Max Martin and the Neptunes all in one breath. They were all my heroes because they were just craftsmen in what they did.
With dancing, Wade Robson was teaching a class and I joined in. Because we were the same age and were both tech heads and had our own little mini like recording studios, we bonded over that. And then as we kept progressing, we developed the concept of being able to choreograph, music produce, remix and video edit as well. So we became this all-in-one ‘shop’.
And between the two of us, we worked with a lot of people like Britney (Spears) and Christina (Aguilera) and N’Sync and Backstreet Boys. He was one of the best mentors I've ever had. Then he left to go and do his show called The Wade Robson Project, and I ended up taking over and directed the Britney tour when I was 19. And I was like, ‘Oh my God. I don't know if I can do this anymore.’ (laughs) I don't think I was made for the music business; you know what I mean? Like, it's a very specific energy. And as much as fun as it was, in my young adult life, I wanted to get back to my first love, which was film and TV, specifically genre.
Asian A.V. Club: Hollywood tends to pigeonhole talent, so when you wanted to transition from music productions to narrative film, was there a bit of pushback?
Kevin Tancharoen: Yeah, I understood that my first way in was always going to be something with dance and music involved. I was like, I know how Hollywood is, they tend to categorize you as best they can. So I knew my first anything was going to be that. And then I did [Fame] when I was 24 and it was a hell of an experience. It was great and I worked with some of the best people, but it was definitely a learning curve when it came to post and I got an awakening on what was lying ahead. So it was a valuable lesson.
So after that, in order to prevent me from only doing dance movies, I picked up my camera and my own money and went ahead and shot Mortal Kombat: Rebirth on my own. I knew that no one ever is going to let this dance and song guy do his first love, which was nerdy comic book genre stuff. So I was like, I’ll just have to do it. And I gotta say, because of that, it’s the reason why I’m talking to you today. I wouldn't have been able to do S.H.I.E.L.D. or The Flash or The Book of Boba Fett or The Brothers Sun. It really all stemmed from that decision. Sometimes, actually, most of the time, you have to take a bet on yourself. Because, literally no one is going to f*ckin do it.
Asian A.V. Club: We’ve talked to a lot of creative folks about how they’ve navigated their careers and a majority of them had this gumption and bet on themselves. It feels like a total uphill battle when you’re Asian and especially back in the day, there weren’t that many people that could mentor or help lift you up in the industry. It really takes some serious, magical confidence to be that person for yourself.
Kevin Tancharoen: You know, I think I always had to not give up. I have an obsessive personality, so if I want to learn about something, it's literally all I can think about all day long. So I think I my first love never went away. And I was like, ‘I have to do it, I have to do it, I just have to do it.’ And even if I failed, there’s such a value in failure. That’s something my parents taught me.
And thank God I was taught that early on, because feel like in the newer generation, this concept of instant success seems the only route to a lot of people. I don’t want to make a blanket statement about it, but I’ve seen with some younger folks that if they’re not getting the instant validation, they kind of give up. There’s a kind of work ethic that I don't see as much anymore. BUT when I do see it, I get really excited and I want to mentor that person. You can tell that they're coming from a place of passion and not a place of fame.
A lot of heroes that I look up to all had the same stories about never giving up. And I think you just need someone to tell you that the hardest part is to start. When you’re looking at a blank page or an empty edit session, it’s daunting. But the second you put in five clips or write a paragraph, you’re like, ‘okay…now I can work on this.’ That first step is always the hardest one to take.
Asian A.V. Club: I’m really curious about The Brothers Sun, here is this show that not only has full representation of the Chinese community, but also proudly showcases all the genre stuff that you grew up loving. Was the experience daunting for you?
Kevin Tancharoen: I definitely was nervous because I’ve never worked on something that felt as relatable as this show did to me. I saw myself in the two lead characters completely. I’m part Bruce (Sam Song Li) and part Charles (Justin Chien). I don't go out killing people, (laughs) but the traumas and insecurities that they both have, I feel like I have both of them in my brain.
I’ve been so happy that representation has really stepped up in the past five, six years with movies like Joy Ride and series like Beef, where we’ve earned the right to tell stories, and the people just so happen to be Asian. And in many ways, I wanted to make sure that [The Brothers Sun] wasn't solely about the Asian experience, we had to have fun too. If we were going to explore some of these more nuanced moments that deal with culture and growing up Asian, it should be done with a chuckle. Let’s have the communal experience and kind of laugh at the things but make it so you’re in on the joke too; I’ve always found that to be the most therapeutic.
Asian A.V. Club: I really appreciated all the things that are so culturally inherent in our everyday lives that was part of their natural order.
Kevin Tancharoen: It’s like if you know… you know. There are so many little flourishes that if you grew up this way, you'll be like, oh, yeah, I had that sauce package drawer, or I keep everything in my fridge or in that Dutch cookie tin can or I automatically take my shoes off. All these little, tiny things, if you can relate to them, it's just going to be extra for you. But outside of that, it should just be an entertaining story. I wanted to make sure that I had fun.
I did feel very stressed out about making sure that the culture would be represented. But I also knew that I had some great collaborators, between me and Byron (Wu, Co-creator), and Brad (Falchuk, Co-creator) and an all-Asian writer’s room, we were able to throw our own personal experiences onto the screen. Honestly it was unlike any other experience I’ve ever had. I can’t relate to a guy who runs super-fast, like The Flash, but I can relate to Bruce Sun.
Asian A.V. Club: We talked to cinematographer C. Kim Miles for a previous profile, and he was so proud to work on this series especially with predominantly Asian departments heads, did you have a ‘whoa’ moment when you looked around?
Kevin Tancharoen: Brad and Byron were really adamant about making sure things were being represented authentically behind the scenes. But my first time experiencing something like that was on Thai Cave Rescue. Not only was everyone on set Asian, but Thai. I had this weird, I can only say, spiritual experience that washed over me. Like I felt a community without having to say anything, and I never felt this before. It felt like family all of a sudden.
Like, I'm born and raised in Los Angeles. So in many ways, I'm very westernized and I never got to experience much of my heritage. When I was younger, maybe just being a kid, I rejected it. I was also on the road and became a cultural chameleon, feeling like my culture wasn’t really being represented in a cool way. But as I got older, I was like, why did I do that? And I’ve come to realize that a lot of people in my situation did the same thing. I've worked through the shame and guilt about that.
So when I came back to LA and did this show on my home turf, it was another elevated experience to see that represented here. I'm working with hundreds of people who look like me and it was something I had never, ever experienced before. It felt like I was with a bunch of family members making a show about our traumas and our inspiration and having a lot of fun doing it.
Asian A.V. Club: Where do you go from these two life changing experiences?
Kevin Tancharoen: I talk about it with my wife. (laughs) I'm like, I have been really spoiled on the past two shows because they have just felt like being in film school. Like it literally feels like I'm just with my group of friends and we're taking a camera and we have a little bit of money to play with. And we get to go and shoot something. So I'm really spoiled on it. I would love to recapture that feeling over and over again, because I really feel like I’ve walked away with a family. You gotta understand, I didn't grow up with a lot of Asian friends in Van Nuys.
Asian A.V. Club: Not even when you were working in the dance world?
Kevin Tancharoen: Back then, Asians weren’t considered great dancers. Now it’s the opposite. It's like the Jabbawockeez [legendary hip-hop dance crew] f*cking changed everything. And now it's like, oh, yeah, of course you can dance, you're Asian. (laughs) But back then it was so rare, like a little novelty. I sometimes wonder what I would have been like if I had The Brothers Sun, American Born Chinese, Crazy Rich Asians as a teenager. I mean, even with Kpop, the fact that there are Asian male pop stars, blows my mind! It's just so cool to see.
Asian A.V. Club: Speaking of The Brothers Sun…
Kevin Tancharoen: Yeah… I’m disappointed that we won’t continue the adventures of the Sun family, but this entire experience was transcendent and unlike anything I’ve worked on.
Asian A.V. Club: Maybe these past two familial experience will inform you of your next project which I’m hoping will be with one of your first loves… horror. Like we will lead the GoFundMe for this project if we have to!
Kevin Tancharoen: (laughs) You’re right, I am a really big horror fan and I have grown up loving it. It was kind of my first obsession with movies because it was all about the process. So yes, horror is definitely in my future because I do think that we're in an exciting time of really high-quality stuff getting made.
Asian A.V. Club: Last question, when you go to weddings, do you ever bust out some slick dance moves?
Kevin Tancharoen: (laughs) I'm embarrassed nowadays because I’m older and my friends don't force me to dance at weddings. Yeah, dancing is now only with my wife. Don’t worry, we have a good time.
Asian A.V. Club: Thank you, Kevin. This was awesome!
Kevin Tancharoen: Thank you.
The Brothers Sun and Thai Cave Rescue are streaming on Netflix.