Asian A.V. Club newsletter #7
Emmy nominated production designers Cindy Chao and Michele Yu talk about their impressive 20 year creative partnership. Plus our film & tv watchlist for the month of July!
Production Designers Cindy Chao and Michele Yu first crossed paths during their college years, igniting a collaborative spark that would shape their professional journey for the next two decades. From their humble indie background, this partnership has blossomed into a sought after creative house where their attention to detail and understanding of cultural nuances allows for them to create unforgettable environments that we get to see on our screens.
From their Emmy nominated work on A Black Lady Sketch Show, to the colorful world of puppetry in Waffles + Mochi and most recently in the series adaptation of American Born Chinese, Chao and Yu’s eye for detail and sensitive approach to weaving heritage and culture into their worlds makes for an always exciting experience when you see their names in the opening credits.
We recently got to chat with the talented duo about the early days, their work ethic and how they approach their fascinating diverse projects.
Asian A.V. Club: How did the both of you get your start as production designers?
Cindy Chao: It was almost 20 years ago as ‘all hands-on deck’ for mostly indie projects. We were doing that part time while we both had full time jobs in the industry. Then the indie film that we worked on (One Too Many Mornings), got into Sundance, and we kind of just quit our jobs right after that director (Michael Mohan) got another bigger movie (Save the Date). And so, both Michelle and I decided to continue our journey as a production design team doing everything. And now 20 years later here we are.
Michele Yu: One Too Many Mornings was the first project we shared a production design credit on. It was a really special project because that was one that we did with just friends. Nobody got paid, we had no budget at all, and we practically shot the entire movie at a church. I think one of our crew members was living at the church as a caretaker and I still don't know that the church ever knew that we were there. (laughs)
Asian A.V. Club: Was that the film that sparked the idea of a working partnership?
Michele Yu: When you start out in the industry on projects that have so much heart, it's hard to see yourself doing anything else. Not only do you realize you love the work, but you also get a hands-on appreciation for what everybody contributes. For Cindy and me, that was a really great place for us to start our partnership because it was something where we were each challenged and had to pull together everything on our own. We came to understand how reliable each of us work and how well we could work together. And from that solid foundation is what we've used to continue working with each other to this day.
Asian A.V. Club: It’s nice to see a production team where both members are also production designers, how do you divide and conquer on your projects?
Cindy Chao: It comes to us very organically in terms of what our responsibilities are. Because we came such a hands-on indie background, we love the pre-production process. That creative collaboration where we communicate with a director and the DP and get very involved in the process. But when we're actually shooting and scouting, that's where we start separating, just so that we could tag team. Especially on any projects that needed us to be in two places at once, our partnership really flourishes because we’ve developed a communication system where were able to come back and organically take on those responsibilities together.
Asian A.V. Club: What kind of work ethic did you pick up in the indie space and how does that scrappy mindset translate to your work now? Â
Michele Yu: There is something about working with what you have that is really energizing and it forces you into some really creative choices. As much as I value coming up in a more traditional way in this industry where you get training and you have a great opportunity to learn from a lot of different people, there's also something to be said for the way a lot of us are coming up now, which is, you book the projects, and you figure it out as you go. There are always opportunities to connect with mentors later.
What was valuable about the training we got coming up in indie projects is knowing what we can do exactly with absolutely nothing. It is also understanding what it is to not have anybody helping, but each other. Knowing that even if everything is against you, you can still pull it off. That’s the baseline for our experience and having that kind of confidence is really valuable. That's a lesson that you learn only in the trenches. And we've proven that time and time again, over the course of our very early credits, and look, we're still here. (laughs) Nowadays, when Cindy and I are booking bigger projects with challenges we haven't encountered before, that's something that we can both draw on as a team.
Cindy Chao: The early days really gave us a stronger backbone. With the bigger projects that we do now, we still have to creatively figure out how to do something and not get worried about getting our hands dirty, cause we will always remember those days where we worked for zero budget.
Asian A.V. Club: What were your personal transitions like when budgets got bigger for you?
Michele Yu: Because we didn’t always have a team, it’s really just gratitude and an appreciation for what everybody does on our team. Now when we have a construction department, plasters and painters, art directors and set designers and graphic designers and coordinators, all of the support staff and crew working with us to create something, we don't take any single person on that team for granted. We are just always so grateful that they're there.
So having that perspective as a department head really puts you in a place to where you are concerned with people's experiences and you are concerned with how schedules and the work affects folks on a very, atomic level. Things like mental or even overall health at work can really affect your output and what kind of work you're able to accomplish. It also affects how creative and efficient you're able to be. It's something that we get really deep into with our crew, and it breeds a lot of loyalty, and it breeds consistency and a sense of care that I think is really special.
Cindy Chao: Because of our indie background where we didn't work from the bottom up, we’ve been working with so many crew members and construction workers who have been in the business longer than us. It’s actually nice because it grounds us, and in turn is more collaborative. I think that really creates such a safe and positive atmosphere for a crew who have come from different backgrounds and experience levels. So, we are very appreciative that we have that strong support group.
Michele Yu: I also want to add that as we've gotten older and our priorities have shifted towards family and home and balance, gone are the days when we were both single and in our 20s, and able to work all night, and not get paid very much. I love being able to share my career journey with Cindy, because I know, she knows exactly where I'm coming from.
Asian A.V. Club: Let’s talk about all the wonderful projects you’ve been working on recently! What is your approach with A Black Lady Sketch Show in which you have to pull together so many designs per episode for each sketch? Â
Michele Yu: Firstly, our biggest connection with A Black Lady Sketch Show is centered on the fact that both of us are women of color in this industry. And we know how important it is for stories to be told to audiences that have not been spoken to before. So, when Robin (Thede – creator) approached us to design for the show, we jumped at the opportunity. Robin is an incredible show runner, and she has such a vision. For each season, there are so many sketches and sets, and most of them are location based. So, our biggest advantage is that Robin equips us with all of the scripts in advance, which means that we can plan ahead, and we have a bigger picture of what the season is going to look like so that we don't repeat ourselves.
It also informs every choice from the beginning, including locations and what we're picking and the palette and all the rest. We also approach things sketch by sketch. Each sketch is very different, and we see what each one needs, and we treat them like a mini show in itself. But because we have that bigger picture, we understand what the whole season is going to look like. And we can really, really craft it to that knowledge.
Cindy Chao: Believe it or not, the show is very structured. We shoot in two blocks, and we do about seven to nine sketches of prep a week right before we start shooting. This season, we were able to finish prepping most of our sketches right before we started shooting for block one, which was incredible. And that's just goes to show how the system of us being able to have constant conversations with our department heads works. Everyone knows what we're doing. up to the minute when we're shooting.
Asian A.V. Club: Is it a whole different experience when you’re working within a children’s palette on a show like Waffles + Mochi?
Cindy Chao: It's fun. I mean, you get to go really bold and strong with colors. I know for Waffles + Mochi, we referenced a lot of (artist) Mary Blair’s illustrations and the colors from her drawings. It was just great to create such a bold and poppy environment that's different from what we're used to. Because we've done a lot of grounded real looking sets, and to be able to draw from a more imaginative and illustrator world really fed our creative bubble. It was just great to have our graphic designer Sarah Gonzalez, involved in designing vegetables that are growing out of the garden, and cutouts and plantains throughout the space. And it was just fun working with miniatures as well.
Michele Yu: We made a concerted effort to not use primary colors and to go a little bit off and keep things interesting. They tell such a such a fun story about food and culture, and travel, and cooking, and gardening and all of these very positive things about how to connect with the world around you and how to connect with the earth. We wanted to make sure that we weren't just showing yellow, red, blue, or neon colors. We made sure it was a mix of subdued colors combined with more poppy colors, but also still creating an environment that children were attracted to.
Asian A.V. Club: When it came to working on American Born Chinese, was it difficult or easier when you have a comic book to reference the project?
Michele Yu: I hadn’t read the graphic novel American Born Chinese by Gene Luen Yang before we booked the show, but I devoured it in preparation for our first meeting on it. Cindy and I had spent our 20s reading graphic novels, and I surprisingly, had never read this one. I understood its place in history as an important graphic novel that speaks to an Asian American experience in a way that was ahead of its time. When it came out in 2006, it was niche, and you had to go out and look for it. So, knowing that the source material was so important to so many people who had found it and had treasured it, that significance was intimidating to me. But on another level, as soon as I read it, I also became such a fan.
When you're a fan of the source material, it becomes such an immense responsibility to do it justice. And thankfully, Kelvin Yu (series creator) and the writers put the scripts with such a new take on the source material, that was still so respectful, and just expanded the universe. What they had already done with the script allowed us to understand that we could do that too, with our designs, where we didn't have to feel beholden to what was already on the page that Gene had established.
Asian A.V. Club: Did any of the illustrations by Gene Luen Yang in the graphic novels influence your sets?
Michele Yu:  We actually didn't feel like having the source material there. Even though it’s so beloved and a great resource, there was a fear that it might restrict us to a specific thing. Of course, that never really happened because from the get-go, everyone involved gave us the freedom to take our ideas and our experiences as children of Chinese immigrants and as Chinese Americans ourselves and develop the palette to help them further expand the world beyond what the graphic novels showed.
So, it was a really wonderful thing to be able to see Gene's drawings and the color palette he had established in the graphic novel, use that as a foundation to understand who the characters were, and then take our understanding of those characters and spin them out in whole other ways.
Cindy Chao: Towards one of the last episodes, we actually used some of the color palettes that he used, in our rendition of the of the theatrical play that the kids put on. Because throughout the whole show, we did just used the graphic novel as a basis of where our ideas would stem from, but nothing too literal. Except for that one moment. I don’t know if anyone would notice that, but that's a little easter egg actually.
Asian A.V. Club: Are there sets that you created that felt representative of the Asian diaspora?
Michele Yu: The Wang family home is where Cindy and I literally drew upon the houses we grew up in, in Southern California. We pulled so much of our lives into that set, and little details that we included, specifically for other Asian American kids to recognize. You'll see them especially in the kitchen, the living room, the way that the dad has his own reclining chair that he falls asleep in every night. And details like the calendars, the remote control wrapped in plastic. There's a trash can on the kitchen that is actually a Folgers container with one of those grocery store plastic produce bags in it as the trash bag. Using all these resources as creative reuse and also kind of hoarding things a bit. These are things that we grew up with that we wanted to portray. This whole show is a love letter to the Asian diaspora and the way that we grew up.
Cindy Chao: When we were doing research for the ‘Asian American Life’ lifestyle, there's not that many photographs out there. That's why Michelle and I pulled from our own personal photos. But the ones that we did find, those little details that Michelle mentioned, we could relate to, because we could see them also portrayed in these photographs. The amount of clutter and organized chaos that you would walk into. Growing up in a very white populated society, having friends over that weren't Asian and was completely embarrassed by the pile of mess collecting dust in the middle of a table; just stuff like that. Because we were able to portray our personal stories, we were able to empower ourselves showing it on a show like this.
Michele Yu: And that was such a joyful exercise, taking these things that we were a little ashamed of growing up and showcase it proudly, instead of something that you have to talk to your therapist about. (laughs)
Cindy Chao: The day we had an open set, everyone showed up and those who came from immigrant families, we're just like, pointing out things and said, oh, my gosh, my parents did that, too. It was just a love fest because it made us so proud that we were not only able to capture our personal experiences, but other friends and crew members who grew up in an immigrant household, and that that really felt great.
Michele Yu: It's been such a privilege to work on these shows.
Asian A.V. Club: The privilege has been for us to be able to see all the craft you bring to our screens. This was so cool for us. Thank you!
Movies:
The Childe (In Theatres) - Desperate half-Filipino boxer Marco (Kang Tae-ju) goes back to Korea to reunite with his deadbeat dad in hopes he will pay for his ailing mother’s operation. Of course any film that dir: Park Hoon-jung (The Witch series, Night in Paradise) brings to the screen, comes with a high dosage of carnage and twisted characters led by the K-drama heartthrob Kim Seon-ho, who simply goes by the name of the ‘nobleman’. Poor Marco is in over his head and watching it all unfold is literally bloody fun.
Joy Ride (In Theatres) - Run, not auntie stroll, to catch this very funny directorial debut by Adele Lim (Crazy Rich Asians writer) and co-written by Cherry Chevapravatdumrong (Family Guy) and Teresa Hsiao (Awkwafina is Nora from Queens). Placing Ashley Park (Emily in Paris), Sherry Cola (Shortcomings), Oscar nominee Stephanie Hsu and standup Sabrina Wu on a riotous roadtrip makes for one of the best comedies of the summer. Sure, hints of a threesome, cocaine induced adventures and kpop impersonations are teased in the trailer, but the best jokes are yet to come!
Theater Camp (In Theatres) - This summer’s other best comedy charmed audiences at Sundance Film Festival and is finally making it’s way to screens this month. Co-written and directed by long time friends Molly Gordon (who also stars) and Nick Lieberman, alongside co-writer/producers (and stars) Ben Platt & Noah Galvin, this group has pulled together an impressive cast all ready to poke fun of the home away from home which spawned their love of theater and um… camp.
#BarbenHeimer Impossible (aka Barbie x Oppenheimer x Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning Pt1) (In Theatres) - Three of the most anticipated movies of the year will be released within a week of each other in hopes to give the summer of 2023 a much needed box office boost. I have a pink preference but I can’t wait to see the return of the summer blockbuster in general (and if all else fails Meg 2 is coming next month!!!)
Talk to Me (In Theatres) - The rules are simple. Hold the ceramic hand of a supposed medium for 90 seconds, get possessed and then let go or else… of course the teens in Danny & Michael Philippou’s feature debut mess that up and things get so crazy chaotic that the film quickly gained cult status as the scariest movie of the year!
TV:
Celebrity (Netflix) - Influencers! Cat fights! Class struggle! Murder! What more reason than to get caught up in this glossy k-soap in which rising star Park Gyu-young (who’s not only VERY watchable but just booked a part in the upcoming Squid Game sequel) breaks down the shallow, wicked world of super influencers and the toxic lives they lead. Pure trashy binge!
Survival of the Thickest (Netflix) - Loosely based on Michelle Buteau’s memoir of the same name, Thickest follows Mavis Beaumont’s journey from heartbroken singleton to crafting the career of her dreams. Of course it’s all filtered through Buteau’s charming persona and sassy humor, making this series a complete joy for your small screen.
What We Do In The Shadows (FX on Hulu) - Staten Island’s stupidest vampires return for another round of biting (hehe) humor. Will Guillermo (Harvey Guillén) FINALLY become a vampire?
Minx (Starz) - Imagine almost finish shooting your second season, only to be canceled as a cost cutting decision. Thank goodness Starz swooped in and allowed this charming, albeit very naked, comedy continue to explore the success of erotic magazine feminist publisher Joyce (Ophelia Lovibond) and her sexist partner Doug (Jake Johnson). If you’ve yet to catch up, now is the best time for this pleasurable gem.
Dark Winds (AMC) - The noir-esque murder mystery series set within a Navajo reservation in the 70’s returns with a vicious baddie literally threatening the lives of the community. Zahn McClarnon continues his career defining role as Joe, the stoic, charismatic and sometimes funny sheriff trying to find the killer before he takes any more lives.
Project Greenlight: A New Generation (Max) - Just here for the production drama!